On 16 August, The Checkered Flag spoke with Willem Avenant about his Dakar Rally début in 2025, the buildup to being accepted for the race, and his Decoding Dakar collection.
The total transcript of the interview is out there beneath. Some textual content has been altered from the precise dialogue to enhance readability.
An article on the interview will be learn right here.
Transcript
TCF: It’s been a couple of month because you have been accepted for Dakar. Has it sunk in but that you simply’re truly going to be there in simply a few months?
WA: [chuckles] It has, however some days I nonetheless should pinch myself a bit bit. Lots of people speak, resolve of their center age, they wish to do Dakar. For me, it’s been like a childhood dream, actually since I can keep in mind, since 4 or 5—not 4, let’s say six years previous. It’s like, I wish to try this. Within the final, I’d say, fifteen years, ever since I’ve been a grown up, it’s at all times fashioned a part of my life. I used to be like, “Okay, if I wish to do that, I truly should get going. I truly should do it. It’s not simply going to occur.”
So now, having that acceptance letter, and I’m certain many different folks would agree that if you get that feeling of elation, is loopy. I used to be like, “Wow, I’m going,” and such as you mentioned, “It’s 4 months, dude.” I’m like, “Huh?”
So undoubtedly excited but additionally nervous, however it has sunk in very a lot.
TCF: Would you say you have been anticipating to be accepted so quickly?
WA: I used to be actually pushing arduous to get accepted as a result of for me, 2025 has at all times been ‘the yr’. I had actually hoped that I can get accepted and I feel that via Decoding Dakar, what I wished to do was, I wished to document the steps of find out how to get there. I consulted with the ASO all alongside the best way and with my crew and I used to be like, “Okay, if we have been to color the right image, how would that look? What steps ought to I comply with?”
You and I, we haven’t spoken personally, however you recognize I went to Abu Dhabi as effectively. That was on advice of the ASO and advice of the crew being like, “Okay, you should do that if you wish to be accepted.” I’m eternally grateful that I went, as a result of wanting on the route, numerous the driving we’re going to do within the Empty Quarter goes to be in the identical space. It’ll be on the Saudi facet, however the identical space of the desert.
So I used to be undoubtedly, like, “nervous” to get accepted. There have been these nightmares of, ‘Oh, what am I going to do if I don’t get accepted?’ I didn’t know that I used to be going to 100% get accepted. I feel none of us is aware of. However listening to that information, getting that letter was undoubtedly a giant reduction as a result of then it modified the narrative from “Will or can Willem get to Dakar?” to “Willem goes to Dakar,” and that helped me mentally rather a lot.
TCF: On the subject of Abu Dhabi, what was it like doing a World Rally-Raid Championship race for the primary time?
WA: I’ve raced rallies since 2017 all around the world, however I’ve by no means completed a World Rally-Raid Championship spherical. The brief reply is that it was an eye-opener from the extent of competitors. The extent of competitors was so excessive and so severe and one of many issues that was a giant takeaway for me from Abu Dhabi was that anyone concerned within the organisation would seek advice from any non-FIM or non-World Rally-Raid Championship race as an newbie rally. And being at these occasions, I see why. I perceive why there’s such a giant distinction in strategy.
In Abu Dhabi, for those who crashed, you had an air ambulance with two superior life help docs, not medics, by your facet inside twelve minutes. In lots of circumstances, the organisation would know that you simply’ve crashed earlier than you knew you crashed due to all of the devices on the bike. To place that in perspective, in New York, it might take an ambulance or a 911 name fifteen minutes to get to you, and in London, it’s longer. What that does is it permits us, and in addition with airbags, it permits folks to push a lot, a lot more durable.
For myself, I used to be in a really attention-grabbing place as a result of I’m not knowledgeable racer however I’m additionally not an newbie. There’s no man’s land on this gray space between knowledgeable and an newbie. That put me in a bizarre place as a result of I wasn’t in Abu Dhabi to race. I used to be in Abu Dhabi to complete and to qualify. One in every of my team-mates was there to podium. He’s like, “I’m right here to podium. I’ll settle for the dangers,” which I wouldn’t. I’ve a spouse, I’ve a household, I’ve a daughter. I don’t care in regards to the podium. I care in regards to the course of and about ending. I feel the most important distinction for me between FIM and every other race was that in that case, you’re within the minority. When you go to every other race, we’re all there for the camaraderie, we’re all there for the expertise of rally, whereas for those who’re in a World Rally-Raid Championship spherical, you’re there to compete. It’s a query of, “Why are you right here for those who’re not prepared to push the boundaries?”
In order that was an eye-opener for me, however on the similar time I realized a lot. There’s a lot collective expertise at these races. There’s those that’ve been racing twenty years. One in every of my team-mates has accomplished Dakar in each conceivable class—automotive, bike, quad, side-by-side, and truck. While you get to spend time with anyone like that, only for expertise’s sake, it was a really, very attention-grabbing expertise, not one thing I used to be used to, however I’m additionally glad that I did as a result of now I’ve a a lot better body of reference for Dakar.
TCF: Provided that Abu Dhabi was principally in desert, how totally different was it in comparison with what you’re used to driving right here within the deserts right here in North America or wherever?
WA: For the readers or listeners, I do spend numerous time in South Africa after which I spend numerous time within the U.S. and in Mexico. I’m the race director for the Baja Rally. I knew Abu Dhabi can be 100% sand and dunes, so I educated for it, I ready for it very particularly, and I used to be prepared for it.
In order that was fantastic, however no quantity of coaching can put together you for the vastness of the Empty Quarter. It’s insane. Like, there’s nothing. I feel that was the most important factor for me is like, you come over a dune and also you come over a dune and also you come over a dune and each time, it’s actually an ocean of sand and there’s nothing. There’s not a city, there’s no folks, there’s not even camels. It was very nice to know that the organisation is aware of the place you’re always, however on the similar time, I want I had time to cease and take photographs and be like, “Wow, I’m right here.” The one unfavourable factor of Abu Dhabi is I by no means obtained time to take footage. [laughs]
It’s a sea of sand. Abu Dhabi particularly, the racing there’s well-known for being harmful for 2 causes. Primary, the drops of the dunes are fairly extreme and so they by no means cease. After day 4, the drops have been so intense that in some unspecified time in the future I used to be like, “When does this cease, as a result of it looks like all that’s occurring is I’m taking place. When am I going up?” The blind dunes are insane in Abu Dhabi.
The opposite factor in Abu Dhabi that was attention-grabbing is that, and I’ve been cautioned by that earlier than I went so I knew what to anticipate, however the sand consistency in Abu Dhabi modifications consistently. You will have pink sand, you’ve got white sand, you’ve got yellow sand, and so they all work in another way. You’d undergo the various kinds of sand at the very least two or 3 times a day, so you possibly can by no means actually belief the bike or the sand as a result of it saved on altering beneath you. That was attention-grabbing. Very, very attention-grabbing, however truthfully, I actually cherished it. I actually loved attending to know and perceive a bit bit extra about racing within the Center East.
To me, that was superb, studying in regards to the tradition, understanding a bit bit extra about how the United Arab Emirates work, and assembly native folks there. They have been so pleasant and so pleased to only have folks there that it was a extremely particular expertise.
I wasn’t stunned by the dunes. Let’s say that it wasn’t the dunes that impressed me, it was additionally the folks and the tradition that basically, actually impressed me. It was actually enjoyable.
TCF: Although ending was your principal objective relatively than attempting to complete effectively, did you’re feeling any form of strain to do effectively and realizing that was your principal shot to be accepted for Dakar?
WA: No, and you recognize what? That was a really attention-grabbing factor that occurred. Personally, I’m superb at deciding on a objective and sticking to it. I’d say that I had ridden on goal effectively beneath my capabilities as a result of I wished to complete and never get injured. My private targets for Abu Dhabi was to complete with out penalties which, sadly, within the very first velocity zone, I obtained a one-minute penalty as a result of I didn’t hear the ERTF buzzer. That shot that, however I obtained no waypoint penalties or the rest, in order that was the very first thing
The second factor was to not crash. I did have one crash the place I actually simply misplaced focus for 5 seconds, which actually highlights how harmful the driving within the dunes are. Actually over 5 days, I misplaced focus for 5 seconds. I do know precisely why I crashed. That was how intense it was that you simply couldn’t cease focusing. Sooner or later through the race, there was a dialog as a result of once more, I consulted the ASO and was like, “Pay attention guys, what’s the deal at Abu Dhabi? Do I simply have to complete or do I’ve to complete effectively?” They have been like, “You need to end.” In the midst of the race, listening to different riders, all people’s speaking about velocity and tempo.
Whereas, to your query, I didn’t really feel “strain”, I went into the race with the mindset that every one I’ve to do is end. I obtained there and all people’s like, “Ooh, it’s important to go sooner. You need to go sooner.” At that time, I did really feel a bit bit anxious as a result of I used to be like, “Nicely, I believed we simply have to complete and now you’re telling me I’ve to go sooner? Why?”
At that time, I made a decision to stay to my plan. Due to racing via the years, I’ve realized to stay to my plan relatively than listening to different folks, however there was undoubtedly not strain as a lot as being a bit bit anxious as a result of I used to be anxious that I may not ‘go quick sufficient.’ The distinction in Abu Dhabi to different races, and that is conjecture, I can not state this as truth, is Abu Dhabi didn’t have cutoffs. That they had a really strict minimal time to do a stage. My interpretation of that’s that the ASO or Dakar organisers implement these cutoffs as that’s your max time, as a result of for those who can not make it within the max time, you’re not going to have the ability to do Dakar.
For me, the max time was like, “Okay, that’s all that I revered and anxious about.” I attempted to drown out the noise, which was tough as a result of as I mentioned, the extent of competitors was fairly excessive. Lots of people have been gunning for it. The ASO has a rule, I’m certain you recognize about that, for the purpose system that for those who make it in 1.5 occasions, 1.5 occasions slower than the quickest man, you do get further factors in the direction of Dakar. Lots of people have been pushing for that. For me, as a result of I had numerous factors from different races, I used to be okay simply ending.
It’s my principle that as a result of in Dakar, you don’t have a cutoff for the tip of the stage, you simply have to complete, I consider that they implement the cutoff in Abu Dhabi to be a pure selector. I completed effectively throughout the cutoff; most days, I completed one to 2 hours earlier than the cutoff. I used to be at all times proud of that. I feel I’d have been a bit bit extra pressured if I completed on the cutoff occasions.
TCF: Talking of the appliance course of, with how convoluted all of it appeared at first look, therefore why you’re doing Decoding Dakar, would you say that now that you simply’re experiencing your self, the method isn’t as complicated as you anticipated or is it nonetheless form of messy at occasions?
WA: Oof, that’s a troublesome query. I feel it might be tough for me to reply truthfully as a result of I’ve been concerned in Dakar—or not concerned, however been following it, for therefore lengthy. I feel that the appliance course of in itself just isn’t too tough. I imply, I’m speaking about submitting your software versus the journey. I feel that I used to be extraordinarily pleased and simply impressed with how a lot care the ASO takes with potential candidates. There’s a direct connection.
I spoke to Ronan Valverde, who’s the competitor relations officer, rather a lot. I met him in Mexico personally, we spoke, and I actually felt that they actually take care in serving to you thru the method by making it very clear as to what you should do. I do assume that originally, it feels a bit messy, after which as the method evolves, it will get simpler.
TCF: Even then, for those who’re the ASO, what modifications would you make to the programmes for those who might?
WA: [laughs] Wow, I’d have to consider that. That may be a tough one. I feel that the circulation of the web site is the massive factor. I feel that if let’s say, I might have a magic wand and I may be in cost, I feel a great way to do it might be to say now we have a primary time Dakar entry portal, which is nearly like a separate web site for first timers, after which anyone else that has completed Dakar earlier than, you go to this web site. That will form of, I feel, declutter numerous it. However, you recognize, on steadiness, the ASO I feel do a extremely good job at placing it in place. In all equity, Dakar’s been working since 1979, or ’78, they’re just like the gold customary within the course of. I don’t assume that I can actually criticise it that a lot, however I’d say {that a} separate portal for Dakar first-timers may be a good suggestion. That will be my constructive criticism, however I don’t need it to return over like I’m dissing their course of. [chuckles]
TCF: When you get this upcoming Dakar out of the best way, do you propose on persevering with Decoding Dakar?
WA: Sure. My plan can be for the readers that don’t find out about what Decoding Dakar is… I spoke to anyone right this moment who mentioned for 50 folks he is aware of, who mentioned they’re going to go to Dakar, two made it. In my private expertise, that’s very related: so many individuals inform me, “I’m going to do Dakar,” after which they don’t. That was crucial for me, that after I say I’m going to go and do Dakar, and that’s the place the strain from qualifying got here in, I wished it to be, “Sure, I’m going.”
I feel for me, the legacy of what I wish to obtain with Decoding Dakar is, after Decoding Dakar, we may have a web site working. That web site, I wish to turn into the go-to place for folks making ready for Dakar. The way in which that I put it on my web site is that it might be a roadmap, so if you’re actually severe, like actually severe about Dakar, these are the steps to comply with, that is how a lot it would value you, and that is the way you go about it. It will form of simply be like placing what I’m documenting this yr into a simple, digestible format that individuals can simply go to and at a look, see the steps, see the timelines, and hopefully that may assist different riders get there. That’s my objective. That’s what I wish to obtain this yr.
TCF: Waiting for January, what are your ideas on the route for 2025 and all the brand new guidelines and options they’re including?
WA: Actually, I’m not going to lie, the most important factor for me is the penultimate, second to final 480-kilometre dune stage. I feel that retains me up at night time now, even already earlier than I’m going. For me, having been to Abu Dhabi, in Abu Dhabi, our phases have been 250 to 280 kilometres and it was powerful. It was actually arduous. Having been to Namibia, driving in Namibia, I can now say with 100% confidence, 480 Ks within the dunes goes to be an insane problem on an excellent day.
To try this, on the second to final stage of Dakar, when your bikes and your our bodies are completed… I get goosebumps simply speaking about it as a result of it’s like, I can’t not end that stage. I feel placing it within the second-to-last stage is a type of actually scary issues. Previously, it was a query of, it’s important to make it to the remaining stage or a relaxation day, then after the remaining day, you’re going to make it to the end. That’s at all times been the Dakar recipe. Now, it’s important to make it via the remaining stage, after which it’s important to make it via the second to final stage, after which you possibly can end. And that’s actually intimidating. I feel that’s primary.
I’m very excited for the Chrono Stage. With Dakar being in a single single nation, it’s one thing that I’ve by no means actually… I had wished that after I do Dakar, it may possibly traverse borders once more. I like Dakar to be a multi-country race, however I simply realised that it’s not going to occur anytime quickly, so I’d as effectively do it. However with it being a single nation race, I feel doing stuff just like the Chrono Stage goes to place us again on the monitor of the Dakar of previous, making folks extra equal, bringing it again to the roots. I feel that this Chrono Stage, they’re speaking about 950 kilometres over two days, it’s going to be combined terrain, it’s not going to be simply dunes prefer it was final yr. That stuff, the entire modifications I’m enthusiastic about.
I’m very excited in regards to the cut up course on 5 phases with not having vehicles and vehicles behind us. Because the bikers would know, that’s your worst nightmares. As soon as these vehicles catch you, it’s actually, actually tough to journey. I feel each biker actually welcomes the modifications of the cut up programs.
And the mass—I don’t know if it’s mass (moss) or mass (mahss)—however the mass begin within the final stage, that’s going to be enjoyable as effectively. I feel that, once more, throws us again into the Dakar of the ’80s. That’ll even be tremendous thrilling.
TCF: What would you say is your principal objective for Dakar? Is it like Abu Dhabi the place it’s simply to complete or is there extra to it?
WA: There may be extra to it. I practice folks to go to Dakar. I practice folks find out how to navigate. I at all times say that I’m not a educated bike rider teacher, as a result of I’m not. Half the time, I simply survive on the bike. I’m not a professional racer. What I do know, I’ve realized by driving bikes. That’s very totally different to anyone, particularly within the U.S., that grows up desert racing their complete life.
That’s a part of why I like rally. You possibly can have an edge for those who can navigate. With navigation, that’s my forte and I’ve educated and taught many individuals that had completed Dakar who did their first roadbooks with me and I’ve by no means gone. So I feel it’s crucial that ending is a type of issues to only cement me in my place as anyone that trains folks. I wish to have Dakar behind my identify, however extra so, like I mentioned at first, it’s a lifelong journey for me.
For me, it’s to have enjoyable. As all people that’s studying this is able to know, it’s my life financial savings. It’s all the things that I’ve labored for. If I’m not going to have enjoyable, there’s no level in doing it. Primary is to have one of the best time of my life whereas ensuring that I end.
Wherever I end, I end. I’ve seen so many individuals’s Dakars being destroyed by having an thought, pondering they need to be high seventy or high eighty or high fifty or high thirty, it doesn’t matter, after which they get to Dakar and so they’re not near the place they thought they have been going to be. I’ve witnessed firsthand how that destroyed Dakars for mates of mine the place they only didn’t get pleasure from it as a result of they have been so upset by their place.
So I feel that for this yr, it’s to complete. If I am going again, you recognize, then I’d have a reference if I end high fifty or high hundred or high eighty, it doesn’t matter. I do know going again that, “Okay, now I do know what bracket I fall in underneath Dakar phrases,” after which I can have a clearly outlined objective of claiming, “Okay, if I end high eighty, subsequent one I wish to end high seventy.”
However for my first Dakar, it’s to get pleasure from it and to make lifelong recollections.
TCF: So so as to get there, what are the bills going to be like and the way do you propose to cowl it?
WA: [chuckles] That’s a giant a part of Decoding Dakar. My go-to quantity for anyone that’s taking part in the intense sport is $100,000 U.S. You possibly can definitely do it for cheaper. Nevertheless, as a result of I’ve one shot at it, I made a decision to play the sport of minimising my threat of not ending. For me, that was crucial as a result of I wish to ensure that I’ve completed all the things doable in order that if I don’t end, that’s not due to one thing that was in my management.
When you might in all probability do cheaper, I feel a sensible quantity is $100,000… It appears like some huge cash and it’s not one thing that is smart. Folks can be like, “How will you spend $100,000 on a race?” It doesn’t, however it’s like with something that could be a ardour or a drive, it doesn’t make sense, it’s one thing that’s a part of you that you simply simply should do. Folks spend cash on different issues that generally don’t make sense. Realistically, I’m planning to cowl it via financial savings but additionally fundraising. There have been numerous added bills and stuff that I didn’t essentially take into consideration. Abu Dhabi, I didn’t finances for as a result of I had believed that I had sufficient cash to cowl all the things, after which Abu Dhabi got here up and so I used to be like, “Okay, it’s best to do Abu Dhabi.” I used to be like, “Okay, in the event that they’re telling me to do it, I ought to do it.” However on the similar time, I didn’t plan for that in my finances.
The fundraising effort can be… There’s 3 ways mainly, greater than three, however one is now we have our… If there’s anyone in any sphere for company sponsorship, that clearly we’re open to and I’d love to search out anyone to help me in that in any model. However the possibilities of that occuring is at all times fairly small for those who’re an newbie, so the opposite facet then is to go the crowdfunding route. By saying that the worth we contribute is Decoding Dakar, as we’re bringing Decoding Dakar to the world, we hope that individuals can recognize that by donating.
I’ve a GoFundMe, however over and above the GoFundMe, we can be promoting very distinctive t-shirts that’s designed by a really upstanding artist in South Africa and he’s making a particular Decoding Dakar restricted t-shirt for Dakar. They received’t be low-cost, however I really feel that for those who’re not shopping for a shirt, you’re supporting Decoding Dakar. Due to that, you’re form of getting a shirt since you’re supporting.
Lastly, and that’s one thing that I’m very enthusiastic about, we’re nonetheless engaged on it, it’s not 100% completed but, however that’s to have a Dakar quiz competitors the place we may have a extremely, actually large prize. I’m speaking a prize in extra of $10,000, the place will probably be a group of actually high-end bike merchandise. You’ll purchase a ticket to compete within the occasion, and the occasion can be regular Dakar questions and trivia, but additionally then there can be predictions alongside Dakar. A easy instance is, “What do you assume what stage goes to be probably the most tough for me? What stage do you assume I’m going to get pleasure from probably the most? What will be the utmost temperature throughout Dakar this yr? What’s going to be the hardest stage?” All of that stuff, we’ll roll into it and we’ll make it an interactive factor the place folks can participate all through Dakar. After which after that, I’ll draw the winner.
So these are the fundraising efforts in the intervening time. Anyone that’s studying this, if they will help me, actually each single greenback helps everybody.
TCF: Earlier than we wrap this up, is there the rest you’d like so as to add?
WA: [laughs] I wish to thanks, man. I feel that it’s actually, actually, actually vital that individuals such as you get the phrase out. The work you guys do are sometimes ignored as a result of individuals are simply at all times like, they learn one thing and so they simply assume it occurred to be there. As journalists, for me, I’ve a deep appreciation for the work you do as a result of at rallies, you’re at all times the primary guys that’s up and also you’re at all times the final guys that go to mattress. You might be our mouthpiece to the world.
Only a few rally or sportspeople are good at social media or good at these kind of issues. With out you guys, we wouldn’t be capable to get our message on the market.
So personally, I’d similar to to thanks for doing what you’re doing and serving to us share the phrase of rally as a result of with out you guys, no one would even find out about us.
